Synthesis III

Elisabet Sahtouris
Notes of the Saturday and Sunday sessions with His Holiness the Dalai Lama,
Rome, Castel Gandolfo, Synthesis Dialogues III, June 5th and 6th 2004

Saturday session with HHDL:

HHDL:  What does it mean to be a spiritual citizen of the world?

Admiration for others with no effort to improve yourself is not good.
Great leaders and teachers do not think just about their communities but all the world. All great teachings are for all humanity. Great scientists and artists also think for all humanity.

Some people think their tradition is best for everyone. That creates problems. And if we think about the past, we all have much to confess, so let us think about the new reality. There are several truths, several religions; all can serve humanity; all can work to transform people. India, in its negative side, destroyed many Buddhist temples; now its new reality is one of many religions and the pluralism is positive.

The Internet, communications, all are creating multiculturalism, pluralism. This is useful! But conflict is still there. Some religious people think “the other” is evil. In a BBC documentary, there was a Suni Muslim leader shouting at other Muslims, saying they were not Muslims.
In this 21st century we must be more civilized; we are compelled to find coexistence, to make friends, as it is necessary for the religions to find reconciliation. In Bosnia, people had tea with each other in the morning and killed each other in the afternoon. This is terrible...really bad. In Ireland I met Jerry Adams, a very nice person but in deep conflict. The same exists in Israel and Palestine. Complex situations. Think! The past is gone; the situation is new. Talk! Make education for now; make economic prosperity!

In 1959, the early ‘60s, we raised our issues in the UN; in Delhi met with the ambassador, but when he translated he could not say [ ?] and just wet his lips. [drinks water]

Problems due to religious faith is easier. When both sides are in political conflict, more time, patience and effort is needed. Many innocent people still suffer. So, we must do something! How much can we do? I don’t know. But even if we benefit only one family, or two, we must do it.  Doing nothing is not sufficient. We must make friends. Some leaders worry about failure; we do it anyway, do not fear failure. We just try; do our best.

Q: What are prospects for the future cooperation of faiths?

HHDL:  Spiritual pluralism is growing. I am optimistic. The Ahimsa concept of Gandhi has reached many places, as with Nelson Mandela implementing it, Martin Luther King...it is spreading. Non-sectarian spirit is growing. But effort must be made...every effort!

Q:  What makes you most hopeful as you travel?

HHDL:  [Giggles]  At the first level, thinking about humanity, not just your own nation. European youth are thinking about all Europe, not just their own countries. My professor, a great physicist, said that when he was young, the Germans and French were enemies; now they are friends—so close they sometimes create problems for others! [laughs] Past chapters are closed. Asia is a little behind; India, Pakistan, need effort. The European Union was not founded out of compassion, but it still lessens fear [of the other]. And they have one money. No need to count so many liras here [chuckles]. [There are ] interfaith services in many local communities. But we need more investigation and research.

[The widow of Amintore Fanfani (former Prime Minister of Italy), 81 years of age, is in the audience and is introduced at this point, saying a few words about her work around the world helping the poor, “shaking the hands” of all religions, fighting the misery of poverty and economic injustice through her Together for Peace Foundation.]

Q: (Marc Gafni)  How does a person hold the pain of suffering and the joy of life together? What is the practice?

HHDL:  When we speak of human experience, we talk of highly complex things. We each carry complex memories of pain, etc. The dominant tone of experience may be pain, but the same person also has traces of joyful experience. So, much depends on the person. Spiritual practice of forbearance and forgiveness gives resources for coping and brings in the positive memories. This is basic. At the physical level, pain comes and goes without getting serious if the body is strong. If the body is weak, small virus, great pain! It is the same with faith and knowledge that gives inner strength and sustains us through pain. Sometimes we forget to cultivate basic inner strength and so react to a present situation from weakness.

Q:  What message do you have for the children of the world?

HHDL:  You have more expertise! ... Secular education may ignore spiritual teachings. We can convey this need of deep spirituality, not just traditions. This is not to serve religions, but to serve ourselves. Traditions that cause trouble should be changed; it is right to amend them, not to follow them blindly. As Tibetans, we need to be Buddhists of the 21st century. Okay, our past leaders and teachers had a little knowledge, but to pray words without knowing the meaning...incense has a strong smell of tradition...but there can still be anger...  In Jerusalem I had a meeting with a Jewish teacher. He gave a lesson that when we feel tension, seeing a hostile person, we should see the other as an image of God. Some students then began to see soldiers in the image of God. That is the practice. Pluralism is important.

Q: (Jawdat Said) I feel like I am listening to Socrates.  Socrates was not welcomed in all lands. You, and we, are lucky; you are welcomed wherever you go.

HHDL: Still too early to know that!

Jawdat continues:  The prophets came from mysticism; now they come from knowledge. Everything that comes from science becomes universal. You change when you see something more clearly. You have made me stronger today.

HHDL:  Trouble is, the higher you climb, the harder you can fall.

Q: (Azim Khamisa)  Can you comment on strategies for healing the past?

HHDL:  I want to put it this way: Some events we face today are symptoms of our past negligence. Like September 11th. We can’t blame a few individuals. Previous centuries are involved. When we think of past causes, we can trace causal chains very far...some, with respect to the natural environment, for thousands of years. The Arab situation can be traced to oil laid down in the geological past. Then peoples of certain ways of thinking, certain cultures, dig it up. We must think about past negligence that developed hatred in human hearts. Colonial rule...industrialization. Now, the Arab world has not industrialized, but it has oil. Look at all the problems holistically. Anger and hatred need individual diet to feed them. Don’t feed them! ... Oho! An awful event happened!  But what caused these conditions?  What will change them? Not punishment! It brings more hatred. As long as there is hatred, terrorism continues. The human brain guided by hatred is a disaster!

Q: (Lawrence Carter)  Can you share with us how Buddhism could intervene to help resolve the Israeli/Palestinian crisis more effectively than Christianity?

HHDL:  That solution must be found within that community. Conflict resolution is a science; it requires understanding interdependency; it needs analysis, holistic thinking. At a conference on Native Americans in Munich, someone gave a long talk saying that all white people should leave the American continent. Does this make sense? The Jewish people are bringing prosperity to the land; what good does thousands of years of claim to that land do now? You don’t have to marry, just to be good neighbors. A tree offers shade to all people who stop under it. This is my belief. There are many Chinese in Tibet now; let them show respect and let us respect them for bringing development. My brother says I sell out Tibet, but this is my belief.

Q: (Dhyani Ywahoo)  How may a citizen of the land reawaken the Native American model of leadership that supports people in today’s political climate?

HHDL:  Behind the idea of democracy is an idea of reciprocity and accounbtability of leaders to their people. In any good system, much depends on individuals. A perfect system only works with good individuals.  We will talk more about this.

Q: (James O’Dea, IONS)  What are the major signs of human spiritual evolution?

HHDL:  In the West, generally, there is more prosperity and more interest in deeper human values, even among a growing number of leaders in the corporate world. There is less concern with global citizenship in India. Now the more prosperous get the limits!  At the University of California at Irvine there is a program for education of the heart. In Vancouver, and in Scotland as well, there is growing recognition that basic human values must be taught in universities. That is a positive sign! Scientists also are engaged in research on brain activity and emotions in relation to health, using MRI techniques. We must ground basic values in science; study secular ethics.

Q: (Janis Claflin, Fetzer Foundation)  Can you guide our foundation on how to research love and forgiveness?

HHDL:  Your foundation has my greatest admiration. Understanding forgiveness deeply is of greatest importance. There is a natural instinct for revenge, retribution. Not letting oneself fall prey to this instinct, but transcend the feeling, [is the goal.] The left frontal cortex seems to be [a locus of] more compassion. I am a socialist, a Marxist Buddhist. Compassion enhances health.

Basic human values, as I said, are emerging in the corporate world. Social responsibility is coming in; the need for ethics.  I am writing a book with a corporate consultant economist. Also there was a seminar in Amsterdam on Ethics in Business. The human way of learning is through experience. Capitalism gave rise to Marxism and communism as a reaction, then there were bigger corporations, whose activities led to ecological awareness. Now we need one world body of individuals who truly represent humanity: scientists with big visions, ex-politicians such as Jimmy Carter and Vaclav Havel, fair economists....  The UN is the highest such organization now, but it is made up of people with national, not global, interests. People’s power is becoming more influential.

Dialogue among the group ensued here, about how, in Siam, people brought down a dictator, Sulak commenting that Buddhists must go beyond Left and Right, citing Schumacher’s Small is Beautiful book. The World Bank did its share of creating poverty, but now Alfredo Younis is advising Wolfenson, who is moving it towards spirituality and human dignity, the need to transform greed into generosity, the need for demilitarization. Bill Ury proposed a World Future Council of Elders for Humanity—a collective wisdom that can hear the people and serve as a voice for them, with practical implications. The main question raised was:

What do we need to do to become evolutionary leaders?

Dr. Ariyaratne spoke of non-violent revolution from the bottom, how his Sarvodaya movement (in Sri Lanka) made people spiritually rich and awakened through self reliance and interpersonal relations, family identity, respect and non-violence, alternative economics according to principles of harmony in some 5,000 self-governing villages where Tamils and Singhalese are no longer at war and the 15 to 24 year olds are an army of peace. Spiritual non-sectarianism.

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Sunday morning with HHDL:

Q: What is the best way to make peace?

A:  Dialogue is the way to peace. You must make an analysis of the situation, and you cannot exclude your enemy’s interests. If we impose our views on them, that is not realistic. Problems must be solved with the cooperation of the other, which means that compromise is essential to reconciliation. Millions of people demonstrating for peace in the streets is wonderful, but it will not make peace, which can only be achieved through dialogue.

Q:  How can we fight injustice with kindness?

A:  I don’t know. Each injustice situation is different. Are you talking about injustice of money? Injustice in a family?—in religion? What is the context?

Q:  How can we say a holy “no” as we discussed earlier was sometimes necessary and still get to “yes”?

A:  In Buddhist texts it is shown that negations apparent on the surface may lie over deeper unities. [Stops to laugh] Too much diplomacy leads to confusion. Sometimes you must say “No”.

Q:  Besides meditation, what practices can change the heart?

A:  Analytical meditation. Mental stillness is good for serenity, but a deep sense of conviction, faith, devotion, requires analysis. Different traditions may differ on this, but in Buddhism critical reasoning is important. I personally follow Nagarjuna who prescribes no meditation practice. Someone told me that the play of words can get totally absorbing. We must utilize our intellect maximally to gain control over our emotions. American like to hear music while they meditate. [Laughs in amusement.] Musical meditations may be relaxing, but they will not transform our emotions. Debate and argument sharpens the intellect.

Q;  (Ela Gandhi)  Does Your Holiness believe in divine guidance?

A:  Of course here different traditions have different answers. Many believe in blessings from within. When we speak of deep meditative experience—there are many, some effortful mental process, some stillness of mind, some spontaneous experience—which may be blessings received. Problem is, there may be a powerful surge that is transient. This must be followed by effortful mental activity, integration.

Q:  What can our group do in a practical way to make this dialogue more than a pleasant experience?

A:  Need for revolution question arose yesterday. Where? Certainly in the individual! As a group, this is the third gathering, so individual revolution should have occurred. We come here not for a holiday but to work. We are committed to revolution, so now we should be able to make it happen as a group, out there in the world. 

Any human initiative must come from some individual—a revolution in one mind that leads to others joining this person in a movement that then becomes effective. Some individual will gain the trust of others to turn it into a joint effort. We must become leaders.
Analytical meditation is always required for this. The Buddha led a movement. We are supposed to be creating leaders here. Others will have faith and trust in us. Carefully thought through situations in the world will enable us to lead with conviction plus reason that comes out of analytical meditation. Mao reasoned well, his historical analysis was good, but then he implemented a rule of terror.

Q:  (Azim Khamisa)  Does enlightenment always mean to be in the present? I have healed my past but seem to live in the future.

A:  In a way this is a philosophical question. The definition of enlightenment varies. Completeness in the present moment is a concept in one Buddhist model; the world of experience is one mental state. Characteristics of mind, qualities of mind, potentiality—all in the present. Future characteristics are there as potential, but preclude reality if they remain as potential. An ant can carry potential for many lifetimes to be, for example, elephants in other lives, so an ant walking on a blade of grass can be seen as a hundred elephants trampling upon it. When you wear clothes, they are also the cotton plant, though you do not wear the plant.

Q: (Azim) By being so much in the future, am I limiting my growth as a potential leader? Buddha was enlightened first, before he became a leader; I am not yet.

A:  As soon as we think of the future, we must connect to the present, which is the only thing in our hands. We must think of past and future to know how to act, but we can only act in the present. Animals stay in the present—time is a human construct they don’t need—but they see a future. Sometimes speculation on the future just creates anxiety. The cosmos will change—we all have to vanish, even all humans. Even victorious people will be finished. Transience. Buddhists count in eons.

Q:  (Brother Davis Steindl-Rast) What inner process can I model by living simply so that others may simply live?

A: This question is best answered by Brother David himself. ... Contentment. What use are a million dollars if you have two meals a day? More is unnecessary. India and China together have almost two billion people with the right to adequate lifestyles. The West has exploited Asia; now Asia benefits by exploiting western technology on their own feet! They can do it.

We should reduce the working day for more rest and relaxation. There will still be some fighting among us then, but it will have smaller stakes. [Laughs]

Q: (Br. David) Does contentment come from gratitude?

A:  Doctors say we should not be fat...or smoke...or drink. We know it now through science—that we should not over consume. A sensible person seeing a dying mother continue to breastfeed her baby while we continue to overeat has a lack of compassion. We are a family of humans. Seeing the living conditions of others, including animals, leads to compassion.

In India forty years ago, there were no chickens; now there are many. But while cars are air-conditioned, chickens are kept in hot cramped boxes. Over fishing has reduced fish, so now we farm them in crowded bad conditions. Buddhists enjoy meat, but now monasteries in India are going vegetarian. There are many contradictions. Indians hold cows sacred, yet they are mistreating cows and oxen. But first we must deal with humanity!

Q:  (Jonathan Purcell, age 13)  What can I do to help the world now?

A:   I don’t know! [Smile]  But I appreciate your willingness and desire. Very good!  Sincere motivation to serve the world is a good basis to study the world you want to serve. As you continue to study, make a commitment to practice the compassion of your mother—the joy she gave to you—toward others. What is very important is that you recognize and appreciate the quality of warm heartedness as you continue your intellectual studies. The young have honesty and good heartedness, but as you grow a beard, you may learn to exploit others. Looking back on childhood, warm heartedness may seem childish, but it is the real, precious value by which we would all survive well. If, after birth, we do not experience it, we do not survive.

Imagine if mothers were clairvoyant—they might not take care of the future troublemaker. A man said to me that Saddam was probably affectionate to his mother and vice versa. Yes, this is human nature. So? What goes wrong?

One story, with the Jews:  Even Hitler, with no trace of compassion, had the seed of compassion deep within. I said this, and when I reached Tel Aviv newspapers said the Dalai Lama believes there is good in evil people—Hussein, Bin Laden, all have it. People really argued with me there! Hearts can harden. Now I find nice Jews here [without hard hearts]. Many Jews very brilliant!

Rabbi Marc Gafni comments he has gone from Jewish to Joyish.

Q:  So many countries face misery. What can we do to change the situation? What should we do first?

A:  Yes, so many problems!  Practical approach must be different with each problem. Wherever any individual can make an impact is where they should work. If you concentrate on the most difficult problem, you may miss opportunities to achieve good results.

Mothers are usually more compassionate than fathers. So Buddhism says, “Cultivate mother quality.” “Dear respected old mother” is a Tibetan phrase of honor that sounds cynical when extended to men [even though it should apply to any sentient being]. Males are more aggressive; females more kind on the whole. They nurture babies in their body. Animals are the same; mothers take full responsibility. Dog father goes off to enjoy himself with no sense of responsibility. [Chuckles] Intimacy is stronger in females. Well, there are exceptions—some reptile mothers would eat their babies; birds totally depend on mothers and fathers feeding them. Mammals depend on mothers’ milk; now we have broken that relationship. Impact of early relationship carries on. In elephants, I think, females are socially dominant.

Human intelligence grows; mind becomes most important; physical less so; ego grows to feel superior. Gender prejudices are left over from physical strength superiority. Some extreme feminists are sad that Buddha wasn’t female.

C: (Elisabet Sahtouris)  Comment on feminine economics, that in simple societies women generally have no vested economic interests beyond feeding people equitably and were often in charge of economies.

A: Interesting matriarchy...

C:  (Elisabet)  This was not matriarchy...it was a simple division of labor. Men were protectors and traders, negotiators with the outside world, while women tended to be hearthkeepers, in charge of home, growing food, economics.

Q:  (Sulak)  The flag of Siam has a white elephant on it. In Siam, men are considered the hind legs of the elephant. So, as a good Siamese man, I listen to my wife before I move. ... Would it be possible for the next Dalai Lama to be a woman?

A:  I have remarked on many occasions that this is a possibility. 700-800 years ago, there were very high women in our history. It could happen again.  As society changes to value women more, reincarnation will also change. The fourth Dalai Lama was Mongolian, so nationality can also change.

In the last forty years, we have made much effort to introduce equality into our studies. Girls should study equally with our boy monks. Nuns should have Doctor of Divinity degrees in Tibetan studies. I mentioned this wish at a meeting of abbots, I said, “Look at history; if Buddha could give full recognition to women, why don’t we?” [Here HHDL laughed and said the abbots had misunderstood, nodding vigorously in approval, but because they heard that women would not get full recognition.]

Q:  Can you give us a report on the Tibetan situation today?

A:  First: What is Tibet?  Geographically it is the roof of the world. For almost 2,000 years it had relations with its different neighbors.  Buddhism came in from India, other aspects of culture from China and Mongolia.  There was also Muslim influence. Tibetan culture mostly developed on the Buddhist message of great compassion. Still, there were very bad feudal practices. Yet Chinese, Russian and other feudal societies were less compassionate.

Can good relations between India and China happen?  This would help Tibet and could develop a better attitude toward the environment, more compassion, a peaceful society. Tibetan culture is worth preserving. Ecological balance is very important in Tibet.

Forty-three years ago, one of my freedom struggle brothers from East Pakistan said there might be danger if the Chinese turn to the Gobi Desert.  I now heard this in Thailand...

For the last more than fifty years there has been great damage to Tibetan ecology and culture—not through civil war or natural disaster, but through “new guests”... without invitation...who came with guns. We need a political solution. My basic approach to the Chinese is a holistic view. Past is past; I never raise past history, but the Chinese do. Our mantras are repeated thousand of times. Mine is: “I’m not seeking independence.” Theirs is: “Tibet is part of China.” Both have limited effect. [Chuckles]  So, we still need a practical solution. The Chinese using fear and terror is not realistic. The Tibetan side is stubborn about independence and must give that up. We need to live together.

Afghanistan, Burma, all need a long term vision. If Tibet modernizes because we are today part of China, this is beneficial as long as it is not used for aggression. I do not seek independence providing China gives us reasonable autonomy. We have full courage to meet face to face and maintain our principle of non-violence. We are building confidence with the Chinese to get over their suspicion of us that we are building western opposition to China. We need to communicate with Chinese academics, artists and students. You can do this.  Taiwanese Chinese have respect and want to learn from the Tibetan Buddhist tradition.

Q: (Dr. Ariyaratne) In Sri Lanka, more than ...

Q: (Dr. Nancy Harris, intervening passionately)  Conditions are horrible in Tibet! All Chinese are terrified by the Dalai Lama, who is presented as a terrorist. Despite oppression and fear in Tibet, however, the Tibetan people are unbroken inside. My Tibetan staff there is unprotected. You, Your Holiness, are seen by Tibetans as who you are and the people love you. Without bitterness and revenge they wait for you.

A:  My friend, an old monk, was held in a Chinese gulag for many years. He was finally released and came to India. We talked. And he said that while he was in prison, a few times he faced severe danger. I expected him to say his physical existence was in danger, but he explained that he was in danger of losing his compassion toward his Chinese captors.

This concluded the session, after which Azim Khamisa said:

This story was very powerful; a huge breakthrough for me on the danger of losing compassion. To internalize this fear of losing compassion, I contemplated losing my compassion for Plez (Azim’s son’s murderer’s grandfather, who had become his best friend) and I felt so alone. Then gratefulness took over, for Plez in my life, for AGNT, for HHDL...another quantum leap in my healing!

Visit www.synthesisdialogues.org

June 21, 2004
Barbara Fields Bernstein
Co-founder & Director, Synthesis Dialogues I, II & III
Executive Director, Association for Global New Thought